Posts by paul from cleveland

i am not sure if it's true but i heard from a good source that wt has given instructions to elders to postponed disfellowshipping members from wrong doing/gross sin until further instructions given by headquarters.

i heard some jws were just reproved either privately or publically.

has anyone else heard anything like this recently?

paul from cleveland

I could see them gradually turning disfellowshipping into an unwritten rule to reduce litigation. The Watchtower's expectations don't have to be spelled out to be quietly enforced through peer pressure. Aren't weaker members already 'semi-shunned'?

Also, even if they did this, there wouldn't be a clear explanation or announcement of "no more shunning" that would shock people to their senses. There would most likely be a convoluted legalese "refinement" of their understanding, written by the legal department, that no one would fully understand or be able to explain. Leaving the door open for further "refinement" in the future. Similar to the overlapping generations explanation.

27

Samuel Herd's statement about donations and Cialdini's social proof

by slimboyfat in

samuel herd made a statement a few weeks ago about halting construction work, laying off bethel workers and reducing printing output: severe cutbacks all round.

he said, like the head of a household, the gb has to make sure the organisation is living within its means.

but he added a very careful phrase, something like: "be assured brothers these measures have not been taken as a result of any lack of financial support on your part.

paul from cleveland

Yes, I think that's true. Also, I think it's human nature to want to live up to a good reputation.

33

Letter to be read at meeting this week about the downsize

by dropoffyourkeylee in

a family member who is a bethelite informed me today that there is a letter to be read soon ( this week or next) concerning the downsizing.

so probably someone who has their midweek meeting early in the week will be able to fill in the details.

paul from cleveland

It doesn't matter what happens because anything can be interpreted in a positive way. If Jehovah sees fit to downsize his organization then the preaching work must be complete and the end is imminent.

175

How confident are you about various so called facts?

by slimboyfat in

no facts about the world are absolutely certain.

that being the case i wonder how others would rank amd rate their confidence in various factual statements about the world.

i am going to rate my confidence in ten items of "knowledge" as a percentage.

paul from cleveland

Slimboyfat, what is your percentage of certainty that Jehovah's Witnesses are the true religion?

Edit: Have you determined a percentage?

175

How confident are you about various so called facts?

by slimboyfat in

no facts about the world are absolutely certain.

that being the case i wonder how others would rank amd rate their confidence in various factual statements about the world.

i am going to rate my confidence in ten items of "knowledge" as a percentage.

paul from cleveland

I believe that I can't know anything with certainty except that I'm conscious and that I exist. I can't prove that anything exists outside my mind. I can't really know whether or not I'm living in a solypsism. I don't live like I'm in a solypsism only because I might not be and there may really be others.

Anything is possible. Perhaps Kurzweil's singularity has already occurred centuries ago and I'm existing in a virtual world where nothing is what it seems but just a projection of my mind.

Sometimes I wish I was the only consciousness because that would mean the world with all the pain and suffering doesn't exist and the worst that anyone has ever suffered would be what I went through.

Again, although I think that's a possibility, I don't behave that way because maybe it's not.

14

I need help finding 2 specific Awake or Watchtower articles from 70's or 80's regarding converting homosexuals.

by paul from cleveland in

i remember reading at least 2 articles from the 70's or early 80's referencing people that supposedly changed from gay to straight while jehovah's witnesses.

i can't remember the specifics or maybe i was just reading that into the article at the time.

does anyone remember these articles or something similar?.

paul from cleveland

Ugh, Zoos, your experience was similar to mine. I would pray and pray and beg god to make me straight or at least be able to endure the situation. Neither prayer was answered. The only good that came out of it was that it got me out of the cult. Otherwise, I might be still on the Watchtower treadmill to this day...

14

I need help finding 2 specific Awake or Watchtower articles from 70's or 80's regarding converting homosexuals.

by paul from cleveland in

i remember reading at least 2 articles from the 70's or early 80's referencing people that supposedly changed from gay to straight while jehovah's witnesses.

i can't remember the specifics or maybe i was just reading that into the article at the time.

does anyone remember these articles or something similar?.

paul from cleveland

krejames, I know, me too. It's all a pack of lies. I haven't been watching anything Watchtower for a while but I recently discovered their tv channel. One of the GB was blaming their pedophilia problems on gay men. So ridiculous. Every case I see in the news is straight men going after little girls. They keep trying to demonize gay people. I'm so glad I'm not in that prison any more.

14

I need help finding 2 specific Awake or Watchtower articles from 70's or 80's regarding converting homosexuals.

by paul from cleveland in

i remember reading at least 2 articles from the 70's or early 80's referencing people that supposedly changed from gay to straight while jehovah's witnesses.

i can't remember the specifics or maybe i was just reading that into the article at the time.

does anyone remember these articles or something similar?.

paul from cleveland

Zoos, It was these two articles that made me believe that change was possible. After I read those I thought I too could change. I spent 19 years trying. From about age 13 until I was 32. It's a long sordid story that didn't end well. My sister, never a Witness, is working on something and needed some information regarding my journey. If you're interested in the details you can PM me. I just don't want to put it out in public yet.

btw, yes I no longer believe those stories of change. I think the person being interviewed was practicing "fake it til you make it". Pretending to be straight in hopes that by changing behavior the feelings would come later. Of course they never do.

At the end, when I realized it was all a lie, I wrote to the Watchtower asking if I could meet the person who was interviewed. I didn't know, at that time, that they just send the letter back to the elders to deal with. The elders told me that they were sure the person wouldn't want to be identified because it would be too embarrassing. I said that's not true! If I found a way to change from gay to straight I would shout it from the rooftops and help others who wanted to change. The whole experience left be believing the story was made up.